Απαγόρευση των πιτ μπουλ;


ICE

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Μπορει να μας εξηγησει καποιος πως διαβαζονται αυτες οι τιμες διπλα στην καθε φυλη?
 


tomsitas

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20 Ιανουαρίου 2011
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ειναι πινακας οπου αναφερεται
στην πρωτη στηλη η φυλη του σκυλου
,στην δευτερη τα παιδια θυματα
στην τριτη οι θανατοι ενηλικων
στην τεταρτη ο ακροτηριασμος
στην πεμπτη ,αν υπαρχουν σχολια


Breed Attacks , | doing Child |,Adult Deaths | ,Maimings | Notes
bodily harm victims victims
 
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tomsitas

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20 Ιανουαρίου 2011
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Reports are logged as received, and the current log is printed out as
requested. Compiled by the editor of ANIMAL PEOPLE from press accounts
since 1982, this table covers only attacks by dogs of clearly identified
breed type or ancestry, as designated by animal control officers or others
with evident expertise, who have been kept as pets. Due to the exclusion
of dogs whose breed type may be uncertain, this is by no means a complete
list of fatal and otherwise serious dog attacks. Attacks by police dogs,
guard dogs, and dogs trained specifically to fight are also excluded.
"Attacks doing bodily harm" includes all fatalities, maimings, and other
injuries requiring extensive hospital treatment. "Maimings" includes
permanent disfigurement or loss of a limb. Where there is an asterisk (*),
please see footnotes. If there are more "attacks" than "victims," it means
that there were multiple dogs involved in some attacks. If the numbers of
"victims" does not equal the numbers of "deaths" and "maimings," it means
that some of the victims -- in attacks in which some people were killed or
maimed -- were not killed or maimed.
.
.
-----------------------πινακας ------------------------
.
Airedale/boxer: The only listed attack was by 10 dogs at once.
Beagle: The fatality was a strangulation caused by tugging on a leash which
was around a child's neck.
Border collie: Involved in 4-dog attack. The other dogs were two American
bull dogs and a mastiff.
Boxer: Fatal attack on 3-week-old infant also involved a Rottweiler.
Dauschund: Julia Beck, 87, of Fort Wayne, died 5/15/05, two weeks after
attack by Dauschund & Lab at home she shared with Michael T. Kitchen, 48,
and Linda A. Kitchen, 57.
Doberman: One miniature pinscher apparently joined two pit bull terriers in
attacking a child.
East Highland terrier: Victim, age 75, died of heart attack.
German shepherd mix: One fatality victim, age 83, was apparently killed
by an overly rowdy greeting. The victim was knocked down and suffered
multiple broken bones, but was not bitten. The dog had bitten a person on
a previous occasion. In that case, the skin was not broken. Another
83-year-old victim was killed by either a German shepherd/Labrador mix or a
pit bull terrier, but it was not clear whether both dogs attacked her, or
just one of them. An 18-day-old child was killed in an attack also
involving a pit bull terrier/golden Lab mix.
Golden retriever: One dog responsible for an attack was rabid. Another
accidentally strangled Kaitlyn Hassard, 6, of Manorville, Long Island,
on 1/24/06, by tugging at her scarf.
Jack Russell terrier: Patricia Schneider, 50, of Discovery Bay, Calif.,
whose spleen had been removed, died in 2/98 of infection, 3 days after
receiving infected bite on lip at home of Diane Gardner and Elaine Goodney.
Labrador: Adult victim was attacked in her home by as many as 23 dogs owned
by daughter. The Lab who severely mauled Jasmine Charboneau, 2, on
7/29/04 in Devils Lake, ND, proved to be rabid.
Labrador mix: Reports varied as to whether one case was severe enough to
include.
Mastiff: One mastiff attack also involved an attacking pit bull terrier.
Pit bull terrier: One case involved a dog who assisted in a killing carried
out by a human. Another case was a 6-year-old girl who was caught and
strangled by a pit bull's chain. An 83-year-old victim was killed by either
a German shepherd/Labrador mix or a pit bull terrier, but it was not clear
whether both dogs attacked her, or just one of them. One case involved a
Page 4 of 7
woman who was apparently killed by two pit bulls and one Rottweiler.
Pit bull/golden Lab mix: One child was killed in an attack also involving a
German shepherd mix.
Pointer mix: Was involved in attack on Iran Menses, 66, of Los Angeles,
on 5/28/00, along with two pit bull terriers, but apparently did not
inflict any of Menses' injuries.
Poodle: Very strange case involved prescription drug use possibly affecting
dog as well as victim.
Rottweiler: Jonathon Chandler, 6 months, of Lancaster, Ohio, was
reportedly crushed in bed by the family Rottweiler. Four other children,
ages 2-11, were removed from home of Shelly Fisher; case was
investigated as possible negligent homicide. Another case involved a woman
who was apparently killed by two pit bulls and one Rottweiler.
Wolf hybrid: One adult victim was a small woman who was defending two
children. The other was a small woman, 61, who was apparently defending
her dog. In that instance, the wolf hybrid was identified as being a wolf
hybrid/German shepherd cross, with the German shepherd configuration
dominant. Some experts are skeptical that the animal had any wolf ancestry
at all.
 


tomsitas

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20 Ιανουαρίου 2011
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Analysis


The tallies of attacks, attacks on children, attacks on adults,
fatalities, and maimings on the above data sheet must be evaluated in three
different contexts. The first pertains to breed-specific characteristic
behavior, the second to bite frequency as opposed to the frequency of
severe injuries, and the third to degree of relative risk.
Of the breeds most often involved in incidents of sufficient severity
to be listed, pit bull terriers are noteworthy for attacking adults almost
as frequently as children. This is a very rare pattern: children are
normally at greatest risk from dogbite because they play with dogs more
often, have less experience in reading dog behavior, are more likely to
engage in activity that alarms or stimulates a dog, and are less able to
defend themselves when a dog becomes aggressive. Pit bulls seem to differ
behaviorally from other dogs in having far less inhibition about attacking
people who are larger than they are. They are also notorious for attacking
seemingly without warning, a tendency exacerbated by the custom of docking
pit bulls' tails so that warning signals are not easily recognized. Thus
the adult victim of a pit bull attack may have had little or no opportunity
to read the warning signals that would avert an attack from any other dog.
Rottweilers by contrast show a fairly normal child/adult attack
ratio. They seem to show up disproportionately often in the mauling,
killing, and maiming statistics simply because they are both quite popular
and very powerful, capable of doing a great deal of damage in cases where
bites by other breeds might be relatively harmless.
Wolf hybrids, German shepherds, and huskies are at the extreme
opposite end of the scale, almost never inflicting severe injury on
adults--but it would be a huge mistake to assume that these seemingly
similar patterns reflect similar behavior. They do not. In fact, German
shepherds and German shepherd mixes in which the German shepherd line
predominates together amount to 16% of the entire U.S. and Canadian dog
population, according to the data we have on breed-specific licensing, or
just about nine million total dogs. There are by contrast only about
Page 5 of 7
300,000 recognized wolf hybrids: about one for every 30 German shepherds.
Relative to their overall numbers, wolf hybrids are accordingly 60 times
more likely to kill or maim a child than a German shepherd--and that is
before even beginning to consider the critical behavioral distinctions.
German shepherds are herding dogs, bred for generations to guide and
protect sheep. In modern society, they are among the dogs of choice for
families with small children, because of their extremely strong protective
instinct. They have three distinctively different kinds of bite: the
guiding nip, which is gentle and does not break the skin; the
grab-and-drag, to pull a puppy or lamb or child away from danger, which is
as gentle as emergency circumstances allow; and the reactive bite, usually
in defense of territory, a child, or someone else the dog is inclined to
guard. The reactive bite usually comes only after many warning barks,
growls, and other exhibitions intended to avert a conflict. When it does
come, it is typically accompanied by a frontal leap for the wrist or
throat.
Because German shepherds often use the guiding nip and the
grab-and-drag with children, who sometimes misread the dogs' intentions and
pull away in panic, they are involved in biting incidents at almost twice
the rate that their numbers alone would predict: approximately 28% of all
bite cases, according to a recent five-year compilation of Minneapolis
animal control data. Yet none of the Minneapolis bites by German shepherds
involved a serious injury: hurting someone is almost never the dogs'
intent.
In the German shepherd mauling, killing, and maiming cases I have
recorded, there have almost always been circumstances of duress: the dog
was deranged from being kept alone on a chain for prolonged periods without
human contract, was starving, was otherwise severely abused, was
protecting puppies, or was part of a pack including other dangerous dogs.
None of the German shepherd attacks have involved predatory behavior on the
part of an otherwise healthy dog.
Every one of the wolf hybrid attacks, however, seems to have been
predatory. Only four of the fatality victims were older than age seven,
and all three were of small stature. The first adult fatality was killed in
the presence of her two young sons, whom she was apparently trying to
protect. The second was killed while apparently trying to protect her dog.
Most of the victims were killed very quickly. Some never knew the wolf
hybrid was present. Some may never have known what hit them. Some were
killed right in front of parents, who had no time to react.
Unlike German shepherds, wolf hybrids are usually kept well apart from
children, and from any people other than their owners. Yet they have still
found more opportunity to kill and maim than members of any other breeds
except pit bull terriers and Rottweilers, each of whom may outnumber wolf
hybrids by about 10 to 1.
Huskies appear to be a special case, in that even though they are
common in the U.S., the life-threatening attacks involving them have
virtually all occured in Alaska, the Northwest Territories, the Yukon,
Labrador, and the northernmost parts of Quebec. In these regions, huskies
are frequently kept in packs, in semi-natural conditions, and in some
cases are even allowed to spend summers without regular human supervision.
Thus many of the husky attack cases might be viewed more as attacks by feral
animals, even though they technically qualified for this log because they
were identified as owned and trained animals, who were supposed to know that
they were not to attack.
Akitas, Malamutes, and Samoyeds have a similar attack pattern,
Page 6 of 7
but while these are also "northern breeds" commonly used to pull sleds,
most of the attacks by Akitas, Malamutes, and Samoyeds have occurred in
ordinary home situations. Cumulatively, the northern breeds appear to have
an attack pattern resembling that of wolf hybrids more than that of most
other dogs--which might merely point toward the numbers of wolf hybrids who
are illegally kept under the pretense that they are various of the northern
breeds.
 


tomsitas

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What all this may mean relative to legislation is problematic.
Historically, breed-specific legislation has proved very difficult to
enforce because of the problems inherent in defining animals for whom there
may be no breed standards, or conflicting standards. Both pit bull
terriers and wolf hybrids tend to elude easy legal definition; neither can
they be recognized by genetic testing.
The traditional approach to dangerous dog legislation is to allow "one
free bite," at which point the owner is warned. On second bite, the dog
is killed. The traditional approach, however, patently does not apply in
addressing the threats from pit bull terriers, Rottweilers, and wolf
hybrids. In more than two-thirds of the cases I have logged, the
life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous
behavior by the animal in question. Children and elderly people were almost
always the victims.
Truthfully speaking, I do not know how an effective, fair,
enforceable, humane dangerous dog law could be constructed. Any law strong
enough and directed enough to prevent the majority of life-threatening dog
attacks must discriminate heavily against pit bulls, Rottweilers, wolf
hybrids, and perhaps Akitas and chows, who are not common breeds but do
seem to be involved in disproportionate numbers of life-threatening attacks.
Such discrimination will never be popular with the owners of these breeds,
especially those who believe their dogs are neither dangerous nor likely to
turn dangerous without strong provocation. Neither will breed
discrimination ever be acceptable to those who hold out for an
interpretation of animal rights philosophy which holds that all breeds are
created equal. One might hope that educating the public against the
acquisition of dangerous dogs would help; but the very traits that make
certain breeds dangerous also appeal to a certain class of dog owner. Thus
publicizing their potentially hazardous nature has tended to increase these
breeds' popularity.
Meanwhile, because the humane community has demonstrated a profound
unwillingness to recognize, accept, and respond to the need for some sort
of strong breed-specific regulation to deal with pit bulls and Rottweilers,
the insurance industry is doing the regulating instead, by means which
include refusing to insure new shelters which accept and place pit bulls.
That means a mandatory death sentence for most pit bulls, regardless of
why they come to shelters.
This is not a problem for older shelters, which have long established
insurer relationships, but it is a hell of a problem for organizations
without long histories of successful and mostly accident-free adoption,
predating the present abundance of pit bulls and Rottweilers in the shelter
dog population.
Individual dog owners are also getting clobbered, either with
liability premiums so high that no one can afford to keep pit bulls or
Rottweilers, or by inability to find an insurer willing to cover anyone who
has such a dog--or any other dog breed with a bad reputation, whether or
not the reputation is deserved. (Compare attacks by pit bulls with attacks
by Dobermans on the chart above.) This in turn means more pit bulls,
Rottweilers, et al being surrendered to shelters, when their people cannot
Page 7 of 7
find rental accommodations or even buy a house because of their inability to
obtain liability insurance.
The humane community does not try to encourage the adoption of pumas in
the same manner that we encourage the adoption of felis catus, because even
though a puma can also be box-trained and otherwise exhibits much the same
indoor behavior, it is clearly understood that accidents with a puma are
frequently fatal.
For the same reason, it is sheer foolishness to encourage people to
regard pit bull terriers and Rottweilers as just dogs like any other, no
matter how much they may behave like other dogs under ordinary
circumstances.
Temperament is not the issue, nor is it even relevant. What is
relevant is actuarial risk. If almost any other dog has a bad moment,
someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the
actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a
Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that
has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as
their victims are paying the price.
Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be
handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special
requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other
animals, if they are to be kept at all.
--
Merritt Clifton
Editor, ANIMAL PEOPLE
P.O. Box 960
Clinton, WA 98236
 


johnk

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Ναι, όμως, Θωμά, δεν ξέρουν όλα τα μέλη να διαβάζουν αγγλικά και ίσως να τους κούραζαν πολύ οι παραθέσεις σου...

Μήπως ένα resume?:)

Υ.Γ. Και κάτι που με "τρώει" εδώ και ώρα και, δεν μπορώ, θα το πω: Μήπως το θέμα, με την τροπή που παίρνει θάπρεπε να μετονομασθεί σε "απαγόρευση των πιτ μπουλ και των ροτβάϊλερ;":confused:
και, στη συνέχεια, διαφόρων ακόμα φυλών, ων ουκ έστιν αριθμός?:(
 
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Ricos

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21 Σεπτεμβρίου 2009
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Athens
@ tomsitas
Αν ηθελα να διαβασω στα αγγλικα, τετοια σεντονια, δεν θα εμπαινα σε ελληνικο σαιτ, φιλε μου!

Και επειδη ζουμε στην Ελλαδα και οχι στην Αμερικη, εχουμε καμμια ερευνα να δουμε ποσο επικινδυνα ειναι τα πιτμπουλ στην χωρα μας με συγκριση τις αλλες φυλες?
 
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DjSoukis

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Για να δούμε τι έκαναν και οι "σοφές" χώρες που έχουν νόμους απαγόρευσης συγκεκριμένων φυλών...

Δανία

Από την 1η Ιουλίου 2010 η εκτροφή, πώληση και εισαγωγή των παρακάτω φυλών απαγορεύεται:

American Pit Bull Terrier, Japanese Tosa, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldog, Central Asian Shepherd Dog, Boerboel, Dogo Argentino, Kangal, Caucasian Shepherd Dog, Tornjak, Sarplaninac, Fila Brasileiro, South Russian Shepherd Dog και οι διασταυρώσεις αυτών.Τα είδη υπάρχοντα ζώα αυτών των φυλών πρέπει να κυκλοφορούν με φίμωτρο και οδηγό (λουρί).

Νορβηγία

Από την 20η Αυγούστου, 2004 η εκτροφή, πώληση και εισαγωγή των παρακάτω φυλών απαγορεύεται:

Pit Bull Terrier, American Staffordshire Terrier, Fila Brasileiro, Tosa Inu, Dogo Argentino.

Οι νόμιμοι κάτοχοι σκύλων των παραπάνω φυλών οφείλουν να τα έχουν ηλεκτρονικά ταυτοποιημένα (chip).

Πορτογαλία

Ισχύει απαγόρευση για τα Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Rottweiler, American Staffordshire Terrier, Fila Braziliero, Dogo Argentino, Tosa Inu και Pit Bull.

Ρουμανία

Από την 26η Απριλίου , 2002 οι ιδιοκτήτες σκύλων των παρακάτω φυλών θα πρέπει να έχουν συμπληρώσει το 18ο έτος, να έχουν περάσει ψυχολογικό έλεγχο που να τους επιτρέπει την κατοχή τέτοιου είδους σκύλου και να έχουν την έγγραφη απόφαση:

Pit bull, Boerboel, Bandog, American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Tosa, Rottweiler, Dogo Argentino και Neapolitan Mastiff.

Απαγορεύεται η εισαγωγή των pit bull-type σκύλων, Boerboels, και Bandogs.

Τα παρακάτω σκυλιά απαγορεύεται να κυκλοφορούν χωρίς οδηγό και φίμωτρο σε δημόσιους χώρους:

Belgian Malinois, German Shepherd Dog, Doberman Pinscher, Presa Canario, Komandor, Giant Schnauzer και Kuvasz.

Ουκρανία

Υποχρεωτική ασφάλιση, ηλεκτρονική ταυτοποίηση, δημόσια παρουσία μόνο με κοντό οδηγό και φίμωτρο και άλλες απαγορεύσεις σε τοπικό επίπεδο (δήμων και κοινοτήτων) για τα παρακάτω:

Bull Terriers, Bulldogs, Livestock Guardian dogs, Boxer, Briar, Labrador Retriever, Welsh Terrier, German Shepherd και τις μίξεις τους.

Στην πρωτεύουσα, Κίεβο, από το 1998 απαγορεύεται η εκτροφή και υπόκεινται σε υποχρεωτική στείρωση οι παρακάτω φυλές:

Akbash, APBT, Presca Canario, Kangal, Romanian Shepherd, Greek Shepherd, Alek Roshhin Doberman, Superdog and Superdog Mainkong και οι μίξεις τους.

Επίσης, υποχρεωτική ασφάλιση, ηλεκτρονική ταυτοποίηση, δημόσια παρουσία μόνο με κοντό οδηγό και φίμωτρο.

Ο Ουκρανικός Κυνολογικός Όμιλος αναγνωρίζει ως επικίνδυνες τις παρακάτω φυλές:

American Bulldog, American Staffordshire Terrier, English Mastiff, Dogo Argentino, Dogue De Bordeaux.

...και υπάρχουν αρκετές ακόμα χώρες, με διάφορες "σοφές" προσεγγίσεις, σε ένα "σοφό" ζήτημα σαν κι αυτό...
 


johnk

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...και υπάρχουν αρκετές ακόμα χώρες, με διάφορες "σοφές" προσεγγίσεις, σε ένα "σοφό" ζήτημα σαν κι αυτό...
Παρατηρούμε ότι ορισμένα τμήματα των προσεγγίσεων κάποιων χωρών, θα μπορούσαν, όντως, να χωράνε στο νου του ανθρώπου και να είναι εποικοδομητικά... π.χ. ψυχολογικός έλεγχος και έγγραφη απόφαση --> φακέλωμα

Παρατηρούμε, επίσης, ότι σε κάποιες χώρες, μόλις πάει το "κακό" να χτυπηθεί, εξαιρούνται (τελείως παράδοξα) οι "κροκόδειλοι" που ενδημούν στη συγκεκριμένη χώρα, ή στις "φίλιες" χώρες... Με πρώτη και καλύτερη, στην υποκρισία, την Ουκρανία!!!

Παρατηρούμε ότι σε κάποιες χώρες επιβάλλεται οδηγός (και σε κάποιες, κοντός) - φίμωτρο στις περισσότερες "δυνατές" φυλές, κατά τη γνώμη μου ορθό...

Και, τέλος, ένα εξωφρενικό εύρημα: Ο Ουκρανικός Κυνολογικός Ομιλος αναγνωρίζει σαν επικίνδυνη φυλή το Αγγλικό Mastiff!!!

Υ.Γ. Ricos, Αγιο είχαμε!!!
Τα δικά μας δεν απαγορεύονται πουθενά! Αυτά βλέπουν οι άλλοι και λένε τη φυλή μας ...μαλθακή!!!
 
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ICE

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κατι σου ξεφυγε .....
Pit bull terrier 1110 495 397 104 608 # <--------------

ΑΣΧΟΛΙΑΣΤΟ .........??????.
Σε 24 χρονια, σε αυτη τη χωρα U.S(+Καναδα), με αυτα τα προβληματα, και αυτους του ιδιοκτητες, και λιγα ειναι...
Οπως ειπες και εσυ δεν ειναι τα σκυλια. Αρα, να ισχυει ο νομος οπως και σε ολα τα αλλα σε περιπτωση που δαγκωσει καποιον ο σκυλος εκτος του χωρου του.
Επισης οπως ειπωθηκε παιζει ρολο και το συνολο των ατομων της καθε φυλης. Αν μια φυλη για παραδειγμα εχει 10 σκυλους σε ολη τη χωρα, μπορει να υπαρξουν 1000 περιστατικα? Αν ομως μια φυλη εχει 2.000.000...?
 


Ricos

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21 Σεπτεμβρίου 2009
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Athens
Υ.Γ. Ricos, Αγιο είχαμε!!!
Τα δικά μας δεν απαγορεύονται πουθενά! Αυτά βλέπουν οι άλλοι και λένε τη φυλή μας ...μαλθακή!!!
Προς το παρον Γιαννη, γιατι δεν ξερεις τι γινετε στο μελλον, και μην ξεχνας οτι το μπουλμαστιφ εχει το παλιο bulldog μεσα στο DNA του.
 




chrysoula

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18 Ιανουαρίου 2011
2.819
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Αθήνα
Παιδιά δεν είναι δυνατόν... βλέπετε φυλές???

Γερμανικά, Βοξερ, Ντόπερμαν, Σναουτσερ, Ροττ, Ντογκ ντε μπορτώ...?????

Είμαστε σοβαροί...???
 


Amaliaz

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23 Οκτωβρίου 2009
10.131
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Εγω λεω να απαγορευτει καθε φυλη που ξεπερναει τα 20 κιλα... να κοψουμε το κακο απο τη ριζα...

Δεν υπαρχει καταγεγγραμενο κανενα συμβαν επιθεσης dogo argentino σε ανθρωπο ανα τον κοσμο...κ ειναι σε ΟΛΕΣ στις λιστες.... εσεις καθεστε και ασχολειστε με στατιστικες και αριθμους....

Απο την αλλη φυλες οπως το cane corso ειναι σαν το bichon frise... δε βρισκονται σε καμια λιστα... (τυχαια το διαλεξα- τα λατρευω τα κορσακια)....
 




johnk

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Αμαλία,

Καταλαβαίνεις, φαντάζομαι, πως εάν δεν είμαστε σε θέση να συνεννοηθούμε εμείς "εδώ μέσα", για να χωρίσουμε "δυό γαϊδουριών άχυρα"...
Δεν είμαστε και σε θέση να σχηματίσουμε οποιοδήποτε lobby, σαν μέσο ενημέρωσης - πίσεης...:(
 


ICE

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Εγω λεω να απαγορευτει καθε φυλη που ξεπερναει τα 20 κιλα... να κοψουμε το κακο απο τη ριζα...
Eγω τον δικο μου θα τον παω μεχρι 19, αλλα και παλι θα πρεπει να απαγορευθει αφου μοιαζει ;)με πιτμπουλ οπως και τα ντογκο...:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 


johnk

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Eγω τον δικο μου θα τον παω μεχρι 19, αλλα και παλι θα πρεπει να απαγορευθει αφου μοιαζει ;)με πιτμπουλ οπως και τα ντογκο...:rolleyes::rolleyes:
...κράτα τον στα 19, το πολύ, για καλό και για κακό...:cool:
 


Amaliaz

Well-Known Member
23 Οκτωβρίου 2009
10.131
4.809
Αμαλία,

Καταλαβαίνεις, φαντάζομαι, πως εάν δεν είμαστε σε θέση να συνεννοηθούμε εμείς "εδώ μέσα", για να χωρίσουμε "δυό γαϊδουριών άχυρα"...
Δεν είμαστε και σε θέση να σχηματίσουμε οποιοδήποτε lobby, σαν μέσο ενημέρωσης - πίσεης...:(
Δυστυχως Γιαννη.... :(

Η αληθεια ειναι οτι ακομα και μετα απο τοσες σελιδες δεν ηθελα να γραψω σε αυτο το θεμα... μου φαινεται τοσο χαζο... αλλα απο την αλλη... ειχε κολλησει στις στατιστικες λες και ηταν οι στατιστικες που οδηγησαν στα ban...
 
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ICE

Well-Known Member
9 Νοεμβρίου 2010
6.410
421
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...κράτα τον στα 19, το πολύ, για καλό και για κακό...:cool:
Ειναι η μονη μου ελπιδα! :cool: Αλλα και εσεις αν κοψετε αυτια, θα ειστε τα Γιγαντοσωμα Πιτμπουλ και θα πρεπει να απαγορευθειτε επισης...:D
Για να μην αναφερθω στο παλιο αιμοδιψες αγγλικο μπουλντογκ του οποιου ειστε απογονοι(χειροτεροι απο πιτ)...:maria: